Neigh More Don’t Ask Don’t Tell

by Matt Wardman on January 15, 2013

Copenhagen

It is official.

Section 5 is changing.

It will soon no longer be a criminal offence to enquire as to the sexuality of a horse if that is deemed ‘insulting’ to a random third party.

But I want to ignore the funny cases, saying woof to dogs and ‘scientology is dodgy‘ to the public, and examine changes that will actually be made to legislation. Here the picture is depressing.

Theresa May has said in Hansard that the Government will remove the word “insulting” from Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986:

the Government are not minded to challenge the amendment made in the other place. We will issue guidance to the police on the range of powers that remain available to them to deploy in the kind of situation I described, but the word “insulting” should be removed from section 5.

However, she also said that in fact the Government support the retention of the word, and that the change won’t actually make a blind bit of difference:

Looking at past cases, the Director of Public Prosecutions could not identify any where the behaviour leading to a conviction could not be described as “abusive” as well as “insulting”. He has stated that

“the word ‘insulting’ could safely be removed without the risk of undermining the ability of the CPS to bring prosecutions.”

You will be able to use:

“insulting words or behaviour”

insulting: “treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness, affront or demean”

but if you use:

“threatening or abusive words or behaviour”:

abusive: “characterized by insulting or coarse language”
threatening: “express a threat against; be a source of danger to; menace; announce the possibility of in a threat”

then you are committing a criminal offence.

No one is going to argue about “threatening”, but I can see little difference between “insulting” and “abusive”.

In practice, as demonstrated by the comments from the DPP, anyone using “insulting” words can probably be arrested as “abusive”.

Further, the test used for the arrest of individuals under these powers was more than a little convoluted. The man who was arrested in the “gay horse” case was detained because a hypothetical passer-by, who didn’t exist, might have been offended by the question being asked.

Add in that the tone of the comments of both Theresa May, and Yvette Cooper, the Shadow Home Secretary, were defensive:

Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper pressed the government to produce an “assessment of the impact of Section 5 of the Public Order Act on different groups, particularly on minority groups”.

“Many people have said that the existing Section 5 has formed some sort of protection,” she told MPs.

“It is important to make sure we can protect freedom of speech but it is also very important to make sure we can protect vulnerable groups from unfair discrimination.”

and I think this hardly counts as progress.

To me that suggests that this is window dressing, that Theresa May has still caught petty-authoritarian disease from somewhere, and that Yvette Cooper is fully on board.

That’s not good enough; we have a teeny-tiny baby step, but that is all.

Back at you, Theresa May.

Please can we have some progress – which needs to be a little more than defensive tinkering with dotted-i’s and crossed-t’s in areas of law that shouldn’t exist at all.

You can read other people’s views on Section 5 at Big Brother Watch, and The UK Human Rights Blog.

{ 12 comments }

John Pickworth January 15, 2013 at 16:56

A slight departure… Whilst looking at something else for JuliaM’s blog I alighted upon this in the Manchester Evening News:

Police order thousands of DNA samples from ex-convicts in Greater Manchester

“GMP is using controversial new powers granted under the Crime and Security Act 2010, which was introduced by Labour and came into force under the coalition last year. So far, mouth swabs have been taken from 160 offenders, most of whom committed serious crimes in the 1970s, 80s and 90s before the creation of the National DNA Database. It is believed GMP is among the first forces to use the powers.”

Does anyone else find this slightly disturbing?

I’m never comfortable with trawling exercises and even less so when the police involve themselves in the lives of others when there’s not a whiff of suspicion. But to harass those who have presumingly ‘served their punishment’ long ago? Surely we’re not that short of criminals! And don’t be fooled that this is ‘just’ the former serious cases, some of them were little more than thieves and haven’t offended since.

Are the new criminal classes to be found now amongst the old, dying and dead (al la Saint Jimmy S)? WTF are we doing? Its utter madness!

JuliaM January 15, 2013 at 18:20

I find it VERY disturbing!

John Pickworth January 16, 2013 at 15:14

So do I… its worse than I thought.

More revelations about Operation Nutmeg today on the BBC website

Belsay Bugle January 15, 2013 at 18:18

Wasn’t Theresa May responsible for these elected police commissioners?
And the stupid ‘nasty party’ line?

Matt Wardman January 15, 2013 at 20:06

She’s responsible for all sorts of things :-) .

Some improvements – big cuts in stop and search for one.

Some disasters – notably silly on Sexual Offences law, for example.

And a habit of swallowing Kool Aid.

JuliaM January 15, 2013 at 18:19

Well, so long as we can all agree that if you write a comment article in an online newspaper that upsets and offends a perceived identity group (and a Minister), it will immediately be ‘disappeared’, I’m sure we can accept this Section 5 tinkering…

Frankie January 15, 2013 at 18:59

Oh Dear…. Theresa is (depending on your point of view and (possibly) employment) either on scintillating form at the moment or the nearest thing to the Anti-Christ… To those espousing their rights to Freedom of Expression, it is evident that they may feel that she has ‘dropped the ball’ regarding Section 5 reform.

Other interested parties may feel that it is meddling for meddling’s sake and that there are effectively, no practical changes.

Ask a young police officer what they make of her and they may express the view that Theresa and her friend Tom (Winsor) has placed them in the position of a person who has been bent over and is about to ‘take it, dry’.

An uncomfortable prospect.

Thanks Theresa, Thanks Tom.

Matt Wardman January 15, 2013 at 20:07

Thanks for the comment.

My take is that they should have taken out “abusive” as well, as it is another chameleon word.

And there are several other Acts covering similar ground.

Roy Fernley January 15, 2013 at 22:29

I imagine Teresa May in 1912 on the Titanic, the ship has hit the iceberg, it is sinking fast. Does she rush to the lifeboats to help the less fortunate to safety, does calm hysterical children and distraught women? No, she rearranges the deck chairs because they look untidy!

Ho Hum January 16, 2013 at 02:22

I think she would be more likely to go up to the band leader and tell him what a great job he had

Swanseajock January 16, 2013 at 18:36

As a soon to be ex-cop (on Friday as you ask), I would say that it is not the wording that causes the problems, it is my colleagues and others acting without thought and as dicks to arrest the horse student or the dog student. There is a growing lack of “common sense” amongst soem of the younger (and not so young) officers

guthrie January 18, 2013 at 12:31

Ahh, but it all helps meet the targets!

Which May et al claim to have abolilshed, but lots of service officers say still exist.

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