The words above are attributed to Arnold Amaury, a Cistercian Monk as he sanctioned the massacre of anywhere up to 20,000 largely innocent men, women and children in the provincial French town of Béziers on 22nd July, 1209. Whether he actually uttered these words is a bit controversial. What is not controversial is that within three hours a rampaging army/mob slaughtered every single inhabitant in the town. Their crime had been to refuse to turn over “heretics” in their midst; people of good character who were friends and neighbours, brothers and sisters.
A lot is made of the word “crusade” these days. It is a bit of a taboo, because it still raises high emotions in the Middle East, as the floundering George W Bush was to discover a few years ago. But not many people realise that there was once a crusade inside the borders of Europe, and that terrible slaughter and torture came in its wake.
A couple of years ago I picked up a book called “Labyrinth” by Kate Mosse. I believe think it was Miss Mosse’s first novel, and it did very well. It is a sort of murder mystery thriller which is part set in 13th Century Languedoc in France amongst a “Cathar” community, and part in the present day. The whole Dan Brown “Da Vinci Code” genre has taken a whole set of Holy Grail related myths, legends and interpretations (or some truths, depending on your standpoint), many of which originate in or are closely associated with Languedoc, and repackaged them as popular fiction. I find Brown perfectly entertaining albeit poorly written throwaway holiday mush. Mosse touches on some of the history and mystery of the Languedoc and its “Grail” associations, but unlike Brown, she writes very well. The book evokes the beautiful but also mysterious and forbidding landscape of the Languedoc and has its own twist and turns, with a particular twist at the end, of which I shall say no more. However, I do recommend it for the intelligent reader who likes a mystery and historical fiction. And her follow-up, “Sepulcher”, is very good too.
As I have mentioned, the book is in part centered on a “Cathar” community and their unhappy fate. Before I explain that, it is necessary to set out some introduction to Languedoc itself.
Languedoc is a province in central part of southern France, below the old and mighty medieval fiefdom of Aquitaine, with Provence and then Italy to the east and Aragon of Spain to the west.
Away from the coast the patchwork of fertile olive groves and vineyards gives way to rugged mountains such as the Corbieries. The chief city was and is Toulouse, but other towns include Montpellier, Carcassonne, Foix, Albi, Narbonne and the aforementioned Béziers
It seems that geological location and strong local traditions have always made the Languedoc a little bit of a maverick, independent place apart. The very name is significant, derived from “The Langue D’Oc” that is “The Language of “Yes”. In the local dialect “yes” is not “oui” but the clipped “oc”. It was also sometimes know as “Occitania” or “L’Occitanie” and other similar names, and the language or patois as “Occitan”. In fact in the early Middle Ages the dialect of the Languedoc was probably closer to Catalan than classic French. I am informed, although cannot attest to it, that the modern Languedoc accent can be still quite far removed from the smooth tones of Paris. That is hardly surprising.
It seems that there is something of an “atmosphere” in Languedoc. It is associated with many myths and legends, one of the strongest being an association with Mary Magdelene and an alleged child of Jesus Christ. There are various versions of the legend, but one of the most common is that after Jesus’ death Mary Magdelene fled to Alexandria where the child, a girl called Sarah, was born, and they lived until the child was 12, and thereupon they moved on to the Languedoc. In another version the Magdelene flees directly to the region and arrives “in a boat with no oars” – perhaps some obscure symbol or metaphor, but of what?
In any event, there is much folk-lore which connects the figure of the Magdelene with the region; it is argued by many, for example, that she is the inspiration for various “Black Madonna” shrines and icons particularly associated with the region. It is this association that ultimately gives rise to the concept of the “Holy Grail” being the “blood line” of Jesus, mysteries and conspiracy theories surrounding the village of Rhennes-Le-Chateau and its curious church, and ultimately the whole “Da Vinci Code” industry.
But I digress. In any event, in the late 1100’s Languedoc was a pleasant and rather well off place, benefiting from its strategic position on the sea and on trade routes, and with a fertile plain by the sea. In his work “The Cathars” historian and author Sean Martin describes it thus:
“The Languedoc in the year 1200 was a society in remarkable flower. It was one of the most cosmopolitan and sophisticated areas in Europe: trade flourished in the great towns of Toulouse and Carcassonne, with Toulouse itself being only outclassed by Rome and Venice in terms of size and cultural life.”
There was indeed plenty going on socially, with troubadours wondering about celebrating the new fangled notion of “Courtly Love”. These 12th and 13th Century “pop stars” composed and sang ballads on various set topics. Previously in the rest of France poetry and song had been singularly martial. In laid back Languedoc, as with pop stars of today, poet songsters could be male (troubadours) or female (troubairitz), and they sang of unrequited love from afar, and sex, very often with an adulterous twist. Here is one effort from a lady songstress, a 13th Century “Rhianna”:
I was plunged into deep distress
By a knight who wooed me,
And I wish to confess
For all time!
How passionately I loved him;
Now I feel myself betrayed,
For I did not tell him of my love
Therefore I suffer great distress in bed when I am fully dressed
Would that my knight might one night lie naked in my arms
And find myself in ecstasy
With me as his pillow!
For I am more in love with him than Floris was with Blanchfleur
To him I give my heart and love
My reason, eyes and life
Handsome friend tender and good
When will you be mine?
Oh to spend with you but one night
To impart the kiss of love!
Know that with passion I cherish
The hope of you in my husband’s place
As soon as you have sworn to me that you will fulfil my every wish!”
Hot stuff! In short she wanted a good seeing to, as I understand it. But I again I digress…
This free thinking, rather racy and in some ways egalitarian society a religious phenomenon had become established, and they became known to popular history as “the Cathars”.
The origins of Cathars are extremely problematical. I can trace some of the core ideas way back to Zoroastrianism and Dualism back to ancient Egypt and Persia, well before Christianity, but how this version of religion came to be refined and brought into a cohesive disciplined theology and spread is very mysterious, It seems that the theological origins of “the Cathars” was bred in eastern Europe, perhaps in Bulgaria or Romania, and then spread west. In any event they come to the attention of the Catholic Church in 1143, when internal church letters refer to the existence of a heretic group in Germany. There seems to have a complete underground counter church, organised and in direct competition to the established Catholic Church, which it condemned as a Church of Satan. In Germany, those who did not recant were burned. As you do,
The word “Cathar” may derive from the Greek word katharós, meaning or “pure” or “having been cleansed”, but it is also more than possible that it is a slanderous play on the word for the German for cat, for it was alleged that “Cathars” worshipped Lucifer who appeared in the form of cats, so they would kiss cats on the anus. The “Cathars” called themselves “the Good Christians”; I can’t help that this was in deliberate and pointed contradistinction to those whom we may assume they regarded as “the Bad Christians”.
What did it mean to be a “Cathar”?
Cathars had very different doctrines to the orthodox Christian church. They drew on a tradition of “Gnostic” thought which they believed pre dated the later and what they believed were misinformed doctrines of the Catholic Church.
In the Catholic Church there is what a belief in a Good, omnipotent God, and a bad and powerful figure of evil, Satan. This is called dualism, but “relative” dualism, because when push comes to shove Satan, who is a fallen Angel, will always get his arse kicked. But in the Cathars World the two were equal.
In the Cathar theology this physical world and all that were in it are the creation of the Satan, or the Dark God. So everything in it is evil. We literally live in Hell, not in some ethereal after life when sins are punished, but now. The realm of the true or Good God lay beyond this physical plane. The aim of this existence was to achieve purity and learn the lessons needed to ultimately move to the next plane and live with “good” God. This required more than one life time. Cathars believed in reincarnation; and worse from the point of view of the Medieval Establishment, an egalitarian re-incarnation; you might be a count and a knight in one life, and a peasant in the next. Even more disturbing, you could be a girl or a boy. There was no big difference between the sexes. The Divine Self was sexless.
They regarded the Catholic Church as pedaling untruths. They rejected the doctrine of transubstantiation. They believed that Jesus had manifested by some sort of mysterious act of divine will, rather than a physical birth. They regarded the physical body as of this world and therefore unclean. In their metaphysical world souls were created in Heaven, but then when they fell to earth the souls were clothed by the Devil with “tunics”, or bodies. In every human being therefore the soul belonged to God, and the body or “tunic” to the Devil. At the end of days there would be no physical resurrection of the body, as the Catholic Church prescribed, but a reunion of the soul with God. They has priests, called “Perfects”, who lived ascetic lives dedicated to purification, abstaining from meat, sex and alcohol, and each with a team of 12 disciples. Cathar Perfects did not distance themselves from the general population as did the sometimes corrupt clergy of if Catholic Church. They lived and worked with everybody else. Below them were “Believers” who were full devotees, and “Listeners”, who were free to attend ceremonies and sermons and so forth on an ad hoc basis.
Much of the symbology of the Catholic Church was rejected. The cross was not holy; it was of this world and simply a representation of an instrument of Roman torture. They did not consider churches to be holier than any other place, and there is some suggestion that they were more at home worshipping amongst nature. Cathar women played an almost equal role as men, albeit with some differences. They were free to become Perfects, albeit usually after having children.
The only prayer which was shared with the Catholic Church was the Lord’s Prayer, with a slight change as the Cathars substituted “supersubstantial bread” for “daily bread”. I am not sure what this signified but it was obviously of great import to the Cathars, who often carried small crusts of stale bread as secret symbols of their allegiance and faith.
They were also essentially pacifist (although it seems that they were at least willing to defend themselves on occasion) and against the killing of animals, although only the “Perfects” were required to abstain from eating meat.
Even a brief acquaintance with these principles will show that the Cathar faith it was anathema to the two great pillars of traditional Medieval society; feudalism and the Church.
In the dotted fortified settlements around Toulouse and across Languedoc Cathars made up anywhere between a tenth and a majority of the population followed the faith.
In 1998 Innocent III was made Pope. Within 2 months he commissioned a team of Cistercian monks to preach in Languedoc with the aim of converting the Cathars back into Church. The embassy was renewed in 1203 with an elite team of three monk, the most important two being Arnold Amaury, Abbot if Citeaux, and Peter of Castenau. There were debates. The Cathars hated the nosy and interfering monks and regarded them as the servants of Satan. For years the monks harangued the Cathars, but achieved no significant success.
In 2008 Peter of Castenau left to return to Rome. He never made it; when he was waiting for a ferry to cross the Rhone a mysterious hooded rider galloped up and ran him through with a sword. In Rome, this was regarded as a sign of war. On 10th March 1208 Innocent III called for a Crusade.
Anyone who followed the Crusade got very considerable spiritual and practical advantages. For a start the forgiveness of sins, the cancellation of debts and the promise of loot. The Languedoc also had the advantage of being a lot more convenient to reach than the Holy Land. The result was a flood of recruits. No doubt as well as or indeed included in the professional armoured nobles and men at arms at the top of the food chain they would have included the scum of the earth, anxious to avoid their past crimes and on the look out for loot. The Papal Legate Arnold Amaury was nominally in charge. The army was about 40,000 strong, and it trundled down the Rhone valley and into Languedoc. On the feast day of St Mary Magdelene, 22nd July 1209, the host bore down on the Languedoc town of Béziers and demanded that the town hand over its Cathars, who formed a small minority, perhaps no more than a few hundred. It says a lot for the character of both the Cathars and the other, perfectly orthodox citizens that they refused to do so. Harsh words were exchanged between the besiegers and men on the town walls and a small group of hotheads from the town ventured outside the walls to give someone a bit of a lesson. It was a stupid and major miscalculation. Amazingly, the gates of the town were left open. Word spread amongst the besieging army, and they stormed the gates into the town. It sounds like a disorganised chaotic frenzy, with a mob running wild, and whether it was directly authorised by their leader the monk Amaury or not, the result was a total and indiscriminate slaughter, Catholic and Cathar alike. I quote from the redoubtable source, Wikipedia:
“Arnaud, the Cistercian abbot-commander, is supposed to have been asked how to tell Cathars from Catholics. His reply, recalled by Caesar of Heisterbach, a fellow Cistercian, thirty years later was “Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.”—”Kill them all, the Lord will recognise His own.” The doors of the church of St Mary Magdalene were broken down and the refugees dragged out and slaughtered. Reportedly, 7,000 people died there. Elsewhere in the town many more thousands were mutilated and killed. Prisoners were blinded, dragged behind horses, and used for target practice. What remained of the city was razed by fire. Arnaud wrote to Pope Innocent III, “Today your Holiness, twenty thousand heretics were put to the sword, regardless of rank, age, or sex.”The permanent population of Béziers at that time was then probably no more than 5,000, but local refugees seeking shelter within the city walls could conceivably have increased the number to 20,000.”
With this bloody massacre over, the army moved on the various Cathar strongholds and more mayhem and murder followed such as the forbidding fortress town of Carcassonne. Relentlessly the Cathar strongholds were overcome and the Cathars persecuted.
The persecution continued over the next century. An Inquisition was set up. In a development which had more than an echo of darkest days of the 20th Century, those convicted of being “heretics” were at the least forced to wear yellow crosses as a mark of shame and opprobrium – provided they were repentant first offenders. There were harsher penalties. From May 1243 to March 1244, the Cathar fortress of Montségur was besieged by the troops of the seneschal of Carcassonne and the archbishop of Narbonne. On 16 March 1244, a large and symbolically important massacre took place, where over 200 Cathar Perfects were burnt in an enormous fire at the prat dels cremats near the foot of the castle. I am afraid I have to add that in the Medieval world, burning someone to death was something of an art form. They made it slow. In her book “Labyrinth” Mosse describes this event in some detail, and as far as I can see her book is meticulously researched. She describes the Cathars going willingly to their deaths, singing hymns, and content that whatever happened they would be reborn or their souls would join with God.
A popular though as yet unsubstantiated theory holds that a small party of Cathar Perfects escaped from the fortress before the massacre at prat dels cremats. It is widely held in the Cathar region to this day that the escapees took with them “le tresor cathar”. What this treasure consisted of has been a matter of considerable speculation: claims range from sacred Gnostic texts to the Cathars’ accumulated wealth to the inevitable Holy Grail.
But by the end of the 1300’s the religion had been stamped out. Some historians calculate that some 500,000 died, although the basis of their calculations is not clear to me.
These days Cathars have been adopted by many a New Age and fringe movement as their precursors. I am not sure what they would have made of that. Perhaps, though, they would have pointed to their yellow crosses, and compared them to the yellow stars the Nazis required the Jews to wear, and pointed to the ashes of their peers and the Death Camps of the 1940’s and said: You see! We told you!
I don’t know. I have never been to Languedoc, But I do know that I find them a compelling subject and for some strange reason I want to go. It calls to me. A French friend, a remarkable and very sensitive woman has told me about the “atmosphere” at some of the sites mentioned above. She says there is a sense in which they, the Cathars, are still there. I trust her instincts. And there is all that stuff about re-incarnation.
Go figure.
©Gildas the Monk
Born in about 500 AD, so been a round a bit. Seen most things. Sometimes a monk. Sometimes not that monkish at all. location: the Abbey
{ 49 comments }
Another excellent history lesson.
“In 1998 Innocent III was made Pope…….. ” a rare typo Gildas.
Along with ” In 2008 Peter of Castenau left to return to Rome.”"
But, other than that bloody well written and interesting.
Ha! Gildas caught out! I do know he was rushing a bit….
Ouch! What a typo! Mind you it would make life more interesting….
Actually sorry for the typo; there may be a few others as I have had to rush a bit this week, and urgent research has been needed as a major “history” based story is about to “blow”, down in Leicester…
As much as history is ever news, I have a hunch I know what your referring to…
I hope that means you are planning to tackle the question of paternity and the disappearing princes in the not-too-distant future.
Well written and thank you, Gildas. The date errors couldn’t confuse anyone.
Superbly written, as always, Gildas – and the typos did not detract because the correct dates were so easily deduced.
Am I alone in seeing parallels between the travails of 11th century Christianity and the current travails of Islam? Is there some inevitable flaw in human nature that at some point their evolution, major religions must descend into bloody internecine battles? Perhaps if we could unravel the lessons of history more easily, we could avoid the bigotries and hatreds that set men against men as they do too often.
Similarities indeed Engineer but unfortunately for Islam (and hence unfortunately for everyone else), early Christianity, even to the Middle ages has the excuse that a vast majority of the population were uneducated, communication was rarely outside one’s own town let alone county and scientific and technological advances were still in slow motion before the recent acceleration of the last 100 years or so. Islam does not have this excuse and so their fanatical bigotry is all the more difficult to comprehend.
Thank you Engineer.
There is certainly an atmosphere in the chapel at Rocamadour, whose chief icon or whatever is indeed one of those “black virgin” things that you mention.
I am not religious at all, but it got through to me OK. Of course, it could have been all the “thank you for curing my cancer” notices stuck all over the walls, and it could have been the knowledge that these were the very stairs that King Henry II of England climbed on his knees, and this the very chapel where he prayed forgiveness for the murder of Thomas Becket.
As ever, it’s all in our minds and our knowledge of what and who has gone before and been associated with a place or a building. What would someone think or feel who knew nothing of these things or the traditions that have grown up around them?
A priest named Bogomil from Bulgaria is a name closely associated with the spread of ‘Cathar’ beliefs, but they go back an awful lot further. The Manichean ‘heresy’ and the early gnostics are the real root of dualistic Christian belief although it’s far older in pre-Christian religions – as Walter Mapp writing around 1182 says:
‘Everywhere among Christians they have lain hidden since the time of the Lord’s Passion, straying in error’.
I think this is part of the reason for their appeal – a more ‘pure’ form of Christianty. Their vegan, pacifist beliefs also appeal to the New Agers – but few would want to die like they did. There are continuing rumours that a small number went underground (not literally!)
A fascinating, accurate and learned addition; The Bogomil sect shared many of the same concepets, and you are correct to cite the “Manichean heresy”. I did not know of the Walter Mapp quote.
Very good Gildas. I lived for many years (until recently) in Catalonia and there too are traces, s you mention, the language of course Catalan/Occitan being from the same root.
Worth a read…
http://www.philipcoppens.com/catharism.html
An interesting link Span. I have a copy of a book called “The Yellow Cross” which follows the Inquisition which was launched after the first and bloodiest stage of the crusade, but although very learned it is a dense read, very detailed and quite hard to precis
Ah – I thought I recognized the source!
You are too modest; you have (as always) done a superb job of clearly summarising this extremely complex subject matter – chapeau!
The whole area to the south of Carcasonne (and Carcasonne itself of course) is very interesting and atmospheric. The infamous hilltop village of Rennes-le-Chateau and its lower altitude neighbour of Rennes-les-Bains are highly atmospheric. I first went to that area many years ago when the charismatic Celia Brooke (of the famous white rajahs of Sarawak family) was setting up the small museum at Rennes-le-Chateau. Full of decidedly odd types now I guess, but worth a visit all the same.
Some of the Cathar castles are situated in the most awesome scenery as well.
“In 2008 Peter of Castenau left to return to Rome” – typo? I wouldn’t ordinarily be so pedantic, but this is so well-written and engaging that it deserves to be perfect in its presentation. Thank you.
1208!
Hello Gildas I am not sure your analysis of Cathar metaphysics is completely correct. If you are interested you might have a look at Manicheanism (St Augustine started as a Manichean though came to reject it vehemently) and one can trace things on from there —its a theme you might find interesting and if you do you will come across the Bogomils and the Paulicians and many others besides. If you choose to visit Languedoc then don’t miss Montsegur I once drove back from Nice to London via Montsegur just to see it and it was worth every mile.I went mainly for the Field of Ashes, a more detailed history of those who died that day might merit your interest particularly the mercenaries who chose to go to go to the fire notwithstanding they did not hold the Cathar Faith although I understand the Cathars were offered the chance to recant but did not do so. I saw Montsegur early in the morning and the fortress (infact a 16th century construction on top of the one the Cathars used, unimportant to me since it was the place not the buiding that I went for ) at the top of the hill drifted in and out of the morning mist and to me it was as the Celts would term it a ‘thin’ place a place where heaven and earth appear not so far apart or as the Greeks might term it where Chairos and Chronos appear close to each other. Two small points of fact —it was I think Dominicans not Cistercians (relatively unimportant whether you or I are correct) who led the religious side of things against the Cathars —and it was our own good old Simon De Montfort who played a major part militarily against them (relatively unimportant though possibly interesting if he was a muderous self seeking thug, since one of our ‘Plate Glass’ Universities is named after him). Whether the causus belli was faith or wealth is like most things a matter of which theory of historical analysis one chooses but no doubt Languedoc was an interesting place then (leave aside the Da Vinci Code) and probably is now but I chose not to explore going there for Montsegur only .
Not the Leicester Simon, as far as I know, but his father of the same name.
Much to analyse there!
Manichaiesm – founded by the Persian prophet Mani (216 – 275), originally brought up in a Jewish-Christan sect also known interestingly as “Kathoroi”. A proponenet of what he called “the Religion of Light” “it was in effect a cut and paste religion taking ideas from Zoroastrianism, Christianity and Buddhism whose aim was unite and save humanity in one overarching faith. There were two distinct classes of Manichaen, the Elect and the Listeners. The Elecrt were the faith’s priesthood, and practiced strict ascetism, abstaining from meat, wine, blasphemy and sex. The Listeners…it should be noted that whilst Manichaeism is radically duelist, denying the validity of baptism, holding that Christ did no suffer on the cross, rejecting the body as irredeemable and maintaining that the evil principle is the equal of the good.
The the Church, [it] was the deadliest of heresies…”
Source: Sean Martin, The Cathars, 2005, pages 32-33
The orginal trio of monks including Arnold Amaury sent to convert back the Cathars were Cistercians, but the handling of the Inquisition after the Crusade was over was left with the Dominican order. Sources: “The Perfect Heresy”, Stephen O’Shea, and “The Yellow Cross – The Story of the Last Cathars 1290 – 1329″, Rene Weis.
One Simon de Montfort played a prominent role in the Crusade – he was plainly a brave and capable if brutal man, and his life was ended by a ruck from a catapult on somebody’s walls. It was his son who was to go on and nearly overtherow or supplant the establsihed monrachy in England, before being hung drawn and quartered; a story of its own, and well dealt with in the excellent BBC series “She Wolves” series if you get to watch it; I forget who is other half was but she ruled as queen regent but slightly over played her and their hand. She got away with house arrest. Simon de Montfod junior did not, though a lot of pubs bear the family name!
Slightly o/t, my younger son effectively arrived at the Manichean heresy by himself at the age of seven (despite our carefully non-commital upbringing and a C of E school). The reaction of his teacher – an Evangelical Christian – and of other members of staff (my son not being one to keep his ideas to himself) provided much food for thought when I read ‘The Yellow Cross’ later on; I think I had a very small glimpse of what would have motivated those 13th century ‘crusaders’.
(The teacher left the profession for good at the end of the year, citing her own spiritual welfare as the reason – I still feel vaguely guilty about it – while my son is now reading Philosphy at university.)
May I refer you to the book “Montaillou – The Promised Land Of Error” by (Emmanuel) Le Roy Ladurie, published in France in 1975 and in English in 1978 by the publisher George Braziller Inc. of New York. It is an in depth analysis from the detailed register of Jacques Fornier, Bishop of Pamiers and late Pope Benedict XII. It is a prime and very rich source on the Cathars of this period. Also, it is an insight into the realities of medieval peasant life in the region in this period.
A Curse on somebody or other, typo, it should be Jacques Fourmier. Memo, must clean glasses.
G, I’ve bought Mosse’s book on your recommendation, hope we share tastes. From what I’ve read elsewhere previously, the Cathar priests were a kindly lot and very understanding of the nicer (or more venal) aspects of human frailty. Seems the laity knew it’d be all right if they repented before death – bit like “Lord, make me chaste, but not yet.”
That is an interesting point S. I haven’t tried to summarise the Cathars approach tosexuality. Clearly the “Perfects” kept themsleves “pure” in all sorts of ways and sex was a no no. But oddly I get the impression that the rest were a lot more relaxed about the whole business than the church; since this world was all impure anyway, there was no point getting up tight about one thing like that, so it was pretty much “anything goes”. I may however be doing them an injustice…
I hope you enjoy the book, I thought it was very good!
I too enjoyed ‘Labyrinth’ a lot. ‘Sepulchre’ was good, but a bit disjointed (and I hated the trite Americanisms). I had one look at ‘Citadel’ but decided not to buy it.
Her ‘Winter Ghosts’ which does have relevance to all of this is pretty good, though a much shorter read!
Thank you for an absorbing piece on a favourite interest of mine. I, too, have felt a “draw” to the Cathars and the Languedoc and must make the effort to go before I’m too rickety to climb Montsegur! I’m not religious but have French ancestry so maybe it’s in my genes.
Not wishing to be too picky but I have always thought that Aragon of Spain was to the South of the Languedoc and that Spain never made it up the west coast of France.
Occitan as a language is alive and reasonably well in the region. In fact I got involved iv the production of some booklets of the ancient religious music of the Languedoc which I assume cane from the Cathars.
Does this help?
http://www.midi-france.info/0202_languedoc.htm
The borders of “Occitanie”/ Languedoc and indeed a various kingdoms and fiefdoms all change over various periods, and at one stage as I understand it Languedoc included most of south and south western France; the present French administrative area is quite cut down.
In those days the territory ran into/abutted Aragon, and it may be worth noting that during one one the many sieges of the Crusade proper the Spanish popped along to try to play peacemakers, in the person of the Duke or King of Aragon. The present borders were of course far from settled. At one stage Aragon had control of Montpellier.
And this on Aragon/Catalans. The borders were in flux, not fixed like today, but broadly they were neighbours
http://www.languedoc-france.info/190305_catalan.htm
/applause
No, Simon de Montfort was defeated and killed at the Battle of Evesham 1265 by Prince Edward (later Edward I). He was not executed.
I am sure you are right…..who am I getting him confused with…?
Got it! I am confusing him with Roger Mortimer, who was shacked up with Isabella, I think, after she had bumped off her husband Richard, allegedly by the means of a hot poker up the arse whilst he was imprisoned in Pontefract castle. De Montford was a much more interesting phenomena. And also has pubs named after him.
De Montfort may have been the more interesting character but you have to give Mortimer credit for escaping from the Tower of London, even if his subsequent behaviour was decidedly unsavoury even by 14th-century standards.
Isabella’s husband, BTW, was Edward II; Richard II was also deposed but is thought to have starved to death (or, alternatively, been poisoned). For those who enjoy history viewed through they eyes of a novelist, there’s good news in the recent re-release of Maurice Druon’s ‘Accursed Kings’ series of novels, a racy but meticulously-researched and beautifully written (at least in the original French; he was a member of the Academie Francaise) account of the events leading up to the Hundred Years War, including Edward’s untimely demise and Mortimer’s rise to power.
Spot on – I am rushing today, so thank you
Les Rois Maudits was on BBC2 during the early 1970′s. Great programme and fantastic books. After the first episode I bought the whole lot in French and read them before each of the TV adaptations.Who can forget Robert D’Artois and his raving against his aunt (and lots of other people)? The rest of Druons books are well worth reading too.
Hence the name of the now defunct folk/reggae dance band: “Edward II and the red hot polkas”!
Damn, comment appeared in the wrong place again – I was replying to the comment about Catalonia:
Funny you should say that, I have caught the odd echo on travels in that part of the world over the years. I have several times wondered if the Cathar’s somewhat unorthodox views on defecation are echoed in the Catalan tradition of ‘caganers’ – the little shitter they put in the Christmas crib and elsewhere. Or maybe I am just mesmerised by the alternative definition of ‘catharsis’ as a laxative
Bloodlines bloodlines, tut tut…
Ain’t it just great that we speak of a man that represented the kingdom of spirit and bring it down to the temporal blood?
If you are fixed to the earth kingdom as slave then bloodlines are all important, but when you pull the sword from the stone (spirit) you become heaven born whilst still in the body.
Jesus was a man that raised his spirit to control of his chariot (body) and brought the heaven ordained covenant once again to man.
Magdalene and any children have the same journey to travel but in no way is their path to ascension assured on the basis that they knew a man who did.
Eleanor of Aquitane commissioned the French poets and writers to re-write the Arthurian legends to fit a more temporal script and to sanctify the game of kings, why, well because we naughty Britons at the time Henry and Eleanor dug up the bodies of Arthur and Guinevere, while not allowing anyone to see the bodies, was to force the Britons to cease in there hope for the return of Arthur as he had promised at the time old Albion was in her most dire position.
I believe that time is upon us, but will the British recognise their ancestral spirit as it speaks to them in today?
Probably not….
Cistercian’s and the Dominican’s were not of the church they were Carolingian Benedictine, hence all that blood and glory and inquisitive monks…Not forgetting the rise of the English Lodge in 926 AD when Athelstan gave the lodge its royal charter, yet before that a commission from the ultimate bastard himself Charlemagne to Alcuin in around 800 AD….
The plot indeed thickens
Or should that be…”the plot is in fact a clot…
I have to say chappers it would appear you have not actually studied the Cathar religion to believe it was killed off, one only need look at the dead sea scrolls to witness their religion pre Cathar heresey, and if that don’t suffice then look at fanatical Islam today who emulate the Cathars without having a clue they are the same.
Have sex…wash….eat and wash, sex is not for joy….O dear, sounds a bit like the Puritan….American Evangelicals anyone?
Scarcely: The Cathars were dualist, Islam is very strictly purely monotheist, as is Judaism. Christianity is somewhere in-between…
Perhaps a better description would be the same ritualistic behaviour
Thanks for this Gildas. I too have read Labyrinth and thought it was well written and clearly the author had done her research. And now I know a little more about Cathars.
Also agree with your assessment of Mr Browns writing
Another fascinating piece Gildas. It’s nice to know of someone else who has read Kate Mosse’s books and has enjoyed them. I am currently on “Citadel”.
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