Lordy, Lordy, Lordy – this entire shebang grows more bizzarre by the hour, if not by the minute.
Overnight, a woman called Andrea Davison has emerged to claim that she was also at Duncroft, and there she first learned of ‘the existence of an Elite Paedophile ring reaching into the Government’. This is a story which has been gaining much traction on the Internet overnight.
I will take it one step at a time, otherwise I might fry your brains…
I have established via Derbyshire police (explanation will come later!) that this woman really is called Andrea Davison, that is her true name (amongst many fake others) and that she really is 62 years old.
That would place her at Duncroft around 1964/1965/1966. Assuming she really was at Duncroft. I have spoken to a senior member of staff, and two girls who were there at that time, and no one can recall a girl of that name. That is not to say that she is lying, she may have been utterly unmemorable; if so, she got off to a slow start in the ‘being utterly memorable‘ stakes.
If, and it remains an ‘if’, she was at Duncroft in ’64, ’65, or ’66, then she was there some 8 or 9 years before Jimmy Savile ever set foot in the place. Pace Bebe Roberts. Ipso, she cannot be talking about an alleged paedophile ring involving Jimmy Savile.
Andrea Davison is an interesting person though. The reason I had to confirm her identity with Derbyshire Police is that they have reluctantly become considerably expert in all matters Andrea Davison and her various related identities. This started when the Derbyshire Economic Crime unit became aware of a major fraud which resulted in several innocent members of the public losing their life savings. Prosecutions were brought against the fraudsters, and in the course of their enquiries, they became aware that false identity documents, including passports, were being used by the fraudsters which emanated from an address in Wales.
North Wales police obtained an arrest warrant and raided the property in Felinheli – the home of Andrea Davison – where they discovered what amounted to a ‘document factory’. They arrested Andrea Davison and charged her with 27 separate fraud and theft offences.
During the course of their interviews with her, she claimed to be an agent for MI5 or MI6, and claimed to have been producing ‘virtual identities’ in an effort to protect her life which she said was in danger as a result of ‘her work for the secret services’. The police made enquiries with both MI5 and MI6, but were unable to confirm that she had ever worked for either of them…they did discover that she had been an informant for Customs and Excise, and the Ministry of Defence. Something which would hardly have endeared her to the serious criminal gang who were using false passports provided by her. This may have some bearing on what followed.
Before the matter could come to Crown Court, Andrea left her home and claimed political asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy.
You may take a second breather here to compose yourself.
She was, of course, ahead of Julian Assange in this move. Indeed, she would tell you that the real reason William Hague ‘was threatening to storm the Ecuadorian Embassy’ was to get at her rather than Assange….she believes herself to be a far more important and dangerous person to the British government on account of her ‘knowledge’ – gained at Duncroft, aged 14 or 15, no less – of an elite paedophile gang operating at the heart of government.
In her absence, she was convicted of 26 offences of fraud and theft by a jury of 12 of her peers – note, not a ‘member of the corrupt judiciary’ – her peers, of having been instrumental in fleecing many innocent people of their life savings. She was found not guilty of the 27th charge by order of one of those ‘corrupt members of the judiciary’ that we are told about….
Somehow she managed to leave the protection of the Ecuadorian Embassy and arrive in Argentina, where she is today.
From Argentina, she has now declared that ‘Police and Yorkshire Crown Prosecution Service and the Judiciary of North Wales wanted to get her into prison where they could silence her. Her colleagues are convinced the Establishment were deliberately driving her to suicide or would have suicided (sic) her in prison.
If that were so, many innocent members of the public would have had to be fleeced in a police sting operation in order to be seen to arrest the fraudsters (now slumming it in prison) who were using the passports which Andrea claims she was only printing to save her life on account of her being such a terribly dangerous person to the British establishment…this ‘conspiracy’ has more tentacles than a brace of siamese-twin octopi.
She also claims that ‘ the Court stole [all her] life savings, her inheritance and heirlooms from her Parents and everything she owned’ – not the train fare to Argentina apparently…
Usually known as a ‘proceeds of crime order’. Quite common after a major fraud trial.
From Argentina, Andrea tells us that ‘she worked closely with Tony Blair’ to expose evidence of ’the Conservative Governments involvement in illegal arms deals and their cover-up of organised child abuse’. She certainly wrote to Blair more than once, and produces as evidence a copy of his letter to Ken Clarke where he states that ‘it is not the first approach I have received and I am sure it is not the last’ – whether he was just referring to an approach by Andrea or by other people is not made clear.
Five years after that letter was written, Tony Blair came to power and Labour was in power for the following 13 years – yet nothing further seems to have happened with regard to Andrea ‘working closely with Tony Blair’….
Andrea now complains that ‘the evidence she held about the North Wales Children’s Homes and Duncroft and the Paedophile ring was seized by the Derby and North Wales Police in January 2010 and has never been returned’ – that would be along with the evidence they seized about her fake ID factory then?
Andrea (now describing herself as an ‘investigator of sexual abuse’, rather than an MI5 agent) believes that Kenneth Clarke ‘got his revenge’ on her for having the temerity to write to Tony Blair regarding her views on a paedophile ring by refusing to allow her to have a fair trial in the Mold Crown Court proceedings – these would be the July 2012 proceedings that she chose not to attend, preferring to share a broom cupboard with our old friend Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy….they must have had some interesting discussions on the definition of sexual abuse, to say nothing of ‘which of them was the most important’.
One item I fell upon in the course of researching this article, concerns the Palestine Telegraph. A blogosphere ‘newspaper’ well known to those of us who come in contact with the tin foil hat conspiracy theorists. How can I say this, it is not a source that I would trust as far as I could see it to report the truth, or check on its sources. Indeed, it was sued for libel, for having made up wild stories that the ‘claimant was a fraudster’. It was at this point that I fell off my chair laughing.
The claimant was none other than Andrea Davison v Sameh Habeeb & 5 Ors [2011] EWHC 3031 Bwa-ha-ha-ha!
I reported all this to Miss Jones this morning. At 91, and having had her reputation maligned by a media which doesn’t choose to check up on the likely veracity of its informants, she is entitled to some cheer in life….as she said – you couldn’t make it up. But someone did, at some point in this story.
Remind me someone, didn’t I come into this story as a result of someone claiming to have been abused by Savile at Duncroft in 1965 and a forged letter? Forgeries, forgeries, I’m connecting dots somewhere…..
Blimey, never let it be said that Miss Jones girls were a boring lot……!
Ms Raccoon is now going to climb out of this rabbit hole and go out for lunch with her reassuringly sane husband – back later.
Ms Raccoon lives in the Monbazillac area of South West France, renowned for its fine wines and gourmet food, so she frequently finds better things to do than sit in front of a computer all morning. She is liable to take off traveling at a moment's notice. Consequently this blog only gets updated these days when it is raining - and it doesn't rain very often round here...
{ 105 comments }
Well, well, Ms Racoon. This series in , goodness knows how many episodes, is equal in suspense to “Spiral” French serial, or ” The killing” a Skando serial.
It is just so readable. Thank you very much for truth & fun, and now some fantasy woven in.
This delusional person’s fantasies could be amusing, were it not for the grief or even just irritation they can cause others – not to mention the mentally/emotionally incomplete who will become her acolytes. I’m sure there will be no shortage of those; and – more frighteningly, those who will push her story further, for their own nefarious ends…
And not all of them will be state agents, either!
they could be Twitterers though.
Interesting article. I spent more than 30 years working with people with mental health problems, criminals in prisons, young people in treatment programs for drug and behavior problems, and also with sex offenders including both rapists and pedophiles.
What you are seeing with this woman, in my opinion, regardless of whether it is true that she attended Duncroft or not is a woman who is a typical member of the criminal or offending community who is very streetwise in terms of pushing buttons to manipulate people.
There was a hit song by a band called The Strawbs back in the 70′s with a chorus that went like this:
Oh you don’t get me I’m part of the union
You don’t get me I’m part of the union
You don’t get me I’m part of the union
Till the day I die, till the day I die.
The modified version of today makes the claim that since the offender was sexually abused in childhood, he or she has a get-out-of-jail-free-card for all other illegal behavior later in life, or at the very least a claim for extra sympathy from liberal sympathizers . Even pedophiles use it, since they invariably claim that THEY were sexually abused in childhood also, (and no doubt their parents and grandparents before them), making them members of the union too. However these kind of allegations invariably fall down when they come to court or legal proceedings, because the plaintiffs invariably weave a web of contradictory stories.
This is why I have difficulty with the stories of people like Steve Messham of Newsnight fame. Sure, I have no difficulty believing that he was a teenage rent boy, or even that he may have raped by male staff at the Bryn Estyn care home, but he has spent another 20 or 30 years making vague allegations of different kinds in front of different tribunals many of which have subsequently contradicted each other in all kinds of ways. Whenever he is caught out in contradictions which he is not smart enough to avoid, he throws a hissy fit, or claims to be suffering from some kind of post traumatic stress syndrome related to the sexual abuse.
From the Daily Mail:
Messham has previously been reluctant to address the contradictions in his stories, as proved by the 1994 libel trial, brought by a former senior police officer he falsely accused of abuse – claims that were reported by Private Eye, The Observer and The Independent on Sunday.
It was put to him in court that just days before he began making claims to reporters, he had approached police to complain he was being harassed by a journalist, who was trying to put words in his mouth.
In a signed statement, he said: ‘At no time did [the officer] ever sexually abuse me,’ adding that a journalist ‘wanted me to say things that were not the truth’.
It also emerged at the trial that before he would give evidence to support the publications, he had insisted that Private Eye pay him £60,000 on the grounds it had previously published an article which had damaged him. Surprisingly, the magazine did agree to pay him £4,500.
Moreover, Messham initially claimed he was indecently assaulted by the officer, but later changed this into a far more serious allegation. When all this was put to him, Messham took an overdose of tranquilisers in court and collapsed in the witness box.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2231212/Steven-Messham-Astonishing-story-BBC-DIDNT-tell-troubled-star-witness.html#ixzz2ClvuHKdz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Now Messham has repeated the stunt on Newsnight 18 years later and again got clean away by telling the Newsnight editorial staff one thing and then saying something quite different when challenged.
Pumping her name in Google is certainly enlightening: Ex-spy, former Iraqi weapons inspector, friend on body-in-the-bag spy Gareth Williams… I’m guessing that she isn’t the same Andrea Davison as the one who is a Labour councillor in Scunthorpe though.
Well, clearly not, since she seems to be GOOD at lying!
Ace Reporter Anna Raccoon! Hurrah.
Beyond a tangled web…
The most astonishing thing about all this is that as far as I am aware, the only credible accounts I have read regarding former residents at Dunscroft are those of Anna and Mewsical. Clearly, they were there. All of the others have a basic fatal flaw. They are inconsistent. They are trying (if indeed they were actually ever there) to make their presence fit their version of events…
Is it me or is it a sad fact that out of all these accounts, only those persons who have a juicy and salacious tale to tell make the national newspapers?
This Andrea Davison appears to be a case in point. Her account of events would appear to be about as reliable as those of Messham, and look what happened there! Astonishingly, she has her supporters who manage to put a quite incredible spin on the salient facts of the case, suggesting quite implausible reasons as to why she finds herself in the position she is at and giving her account of matters unquestioning support.
There is something so wonderfully apt about her choosing the Ecuadorian Embassy as a bolt hole. We haven’t heard much from Assange for a while. Maybe there’s a tunnel he’s currently crawling along to get to Ecuador, rather than taking a chance and trying to get past Plod, stood on the pavement outside the Embassy in London waiting for him to emerge and be nabbed. If not, perhaps he should ring her and find out how she managed to spirit herself out of the clutches of the Rozzers.
This is what Jim/James, that late, and not much lamented visitor to this forum was missing… It IS all important. It’s all linked. This is not a small story, but a large one, that impacts in odd ways with other current/topical stories.
It’s all a big conspiracy, I tell ye!
It’s very mean of you all – didn’t you read this about the poor woman who was dropped behind Enemy Lines (with the SAS) during the Iraq Wat ?:
” During these missions her Thyroid was damaged by coming into contact with the Chemical and Biological weapons deployed on the Iraqi front lines. Damage to the Thyroid effects every cell in the Body and is a creeping disease which, without medication, slowly debilitates and then kills.”
ROTFLMFAO to the nth degree.
I did enjoy that snippet. Most women in Andrea’s age group, myself included, are either taking hormone replacement therapy (HRT) or some form of thyroid performance boosting medication – on account of us being post-menopausal old bags (myself included!) but not Andrea, goodness me no, nothing so mundane – Andrea’s thyroid condition stems from something far more exotic…..!
Parachuted in behind enemy lines – wow!
In her forties, don’t forget.
Our two cats have thyroid problems, which showed themselves by the cats suddenly yowling, this has been stopped with Felimole, but one of the cats now sticks its bottom out of the litter tray when having a pooh.
Thank you but I was definitely there as was Wendi!
@ Rocky – my 17 year old cat has thyroid probs too and yowls. He’s on Tapazole. If the Felimole has stopped the yowling, I sure hope I can find it here in the USof A.
Tapazole and Felimazole (which I think is the drug Rocky means) are both just brand names for the same drug, methimazole. It and carbimazole (which is converted to methimazole in the body) are the only commonly used veterinary drugs for hyperthyroidism. If your cat is still yowling, it is possible he is not adequately controlled, or it may be due to other issues (like mild senility). Rather than get too off-topic here, I suggest you join one of the yahoo feline thyroid groups to get advice. Too many vets are lamentably ignorant about dealing with feline hyper- or hypothyroid.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Thyroid_Support/ (declariation of interest – I’m a moderator there)
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-hyperT/
If I accidentally left out reference to either yourself or Wendi then I apologise… Perhaps I should have said that: ‘… the only credible accounts I have read regarding former residents at Dunscroft are those of regular contributors to this forum’.
Ta muchly – did hurt a tad to be so dismissed but I’ve survived worse!
Do not pass go, do not collect £200 , go directly to the Ecuadorian Embassy !
I must have been sleeping the entire three years that I was at Duncroft (1962-1965). Who ARE these women who crawl like termites from the woodwork of their pasts and come up with these ridiculous fantasies? I never encountered Bebe or this Andrea either, and the only male on the premises on a regular basis was the glum and disapproving gardener/handy man Mr. Rowe. I understand there was a French teacher of Spanish descent called Mr. Nieto who was apparently quite glam, but as I was a bit scarce in 1965, I never encountered him either, as I’d done all my exams and was out in the work force most of the time. This fantasy Duncroft sounds a lot more interesting than the real deal of course.
Bet you are good at Cluedo too!
What does that mean?
Sorry to confuse you, we must have posted at the same time. Comment was aimed at Anna following the Monopoly reference. Not that amusing either.
@ Wigner’s Friend – I thought that was perhaps your intention, but wanted to make sure!
Thanks for yet another enthralling installment, Anna.
Will your readers have long to wait for Part 9?
This comment (Andrea Bishop – scroll down) is thorough. There is NO MENTION of Duncroft, only of Savile in passing. Claiming Davison was at Duncroft serves only to whet the appetites of the conspiracy theorists, but as this comment is from August, the Exposed show had not been shown, and Duncroft was of NO INTEREST at that time. https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10589-Andrea-Davison-claimed-she-worked-for-the-security-services/page2
Re the SKELETON ARGUMENT FOR THE DEFENDANT…
This top secret agent or her partner, who had a fireams licence and Top Secret clearance kept in an UNLOCKED filing cabinet top secret matters relating to the Atomic Weapons Establishment.
I see in the libel case Andrea’s ‘Amended Particulars of Claim’ is a 48 page, which the judge described as ‘prolix & and repetitive. The appendix was a mere 318 pages!
I note how as the facts get transferred from one conspiracy website to another they change…first off the Jillings enquiy was instigated by the local council, who chose not to print it so annoyed government set up a public inquiry, the Waterhouse Report.
That wasn’t good enough, so on the next website it was the government who stepped in and stopped publication of the Jillings report. When it reaches the next website the story is modified to the government having set the Jillings report, thus giving creedence to the false claim they stopped it being published and give rise to the new false claim the government refused to set up a public enquiry…and so it goes on and on.
Andrea appears to have started out as a resident of an approved school where there was a paedophile ring, then in the next telling Jimmy Savile was introduced and the latest version I’ve read he transported girls in his Rolls Royce to parties in central London, which were attended by the same people mentioned in Scallywag attending the North Wales parties, but now with the addition of a Duke.
Dolphin Square? Smells very fishy to me.
I am feeling quite left out.
Jimmy Saville never even approached me let alone gave me a touch-up.
Sexist bastard.
@ Rocky Raccoon
That’s just how conspiracy theories snowball. If a new conspiracy can be retro-fitted to “support” a previous existing one, then all the better!
I found a site that claims she was called Elizabeth Briggs or Briggs-Davison, and possibly has Tara as another christian name. Also supposed t be daughter of a chap on a government think-tank back in the day. No idea if true but thought I’d mention it in case it means anything to anyone.
Sorry – Biggs, not Briggs
Related to Ronnie Biggs then?
Or Jonny Briggs from the 80′s Kiddy TeeVee programme, ‘eee, our Andrea’s gone over to Irak looooking for weapons’, ‘never mind that our Jonny, tidy up thar room or they’ll be no playing with our Razzle this evening’. Err…
Just out of interest, does anyone know how many girls passed through Duncroft in the years it was open?
I like your thinking Saul – yes, this series could run and run…Winnie the Poo will be revealed as an ex-Duncroft inmate, forcibly shaved of fur in the underground torture chamber…and then forced to work for Syrian intelligence as an undercover chiropodist….
I always thought that Christopher Robin was a shifty looking character.
Well, Brian Jones was murdered by his contractor at Cotchford Farm, once owned by A.A Milne. I think Pooh is behind all sorts of sinister stuff myself. And no, Brian Jones is not related to Margaret Jones!
Murdered? Really, I didn’t know that. Says who?
Actually its more complicated. When Brian Jones lived at 1B Courtfield Road SW1 (since demolished, rather conveniently) he met a C. Robin and inducted him into a Rosicrucian sect. For those who knew 1B Courtfield Road as I did will remember it had an enormous room with a minstrels gallery arrangement which was used as a makeshift temple. Why Brian Jones was later killed, I do not know exactly, but he knew a lot. The use of a swimming pool was certainly ritually significant. C. Robin later worked for NASA and was responsible for the Apollo landing cover up, those in the know used to refer to the hangar in which the landings were faked as ‘the hundred acre wood’. Unfortunately C.Robin met an untimely end in Yosemite National Park, apparently the mate of a bear he was in a casual relationship with took objection. It gets more convoluted, because while on the vacation during which he met his untimely end, he visited Dallas. Apparently he was convinced a ley line ran through the grassy knoll and the Texas Book Repositry, which would mean that on the fateful day, JFK would have unwittingly crossed the ley line at exactly the wrong instant. Of course the Warren Commission did not publish their findings in this regard, as it pointed too many fingers.
It was always a small group of women – in the 60s, not more than 18, then when the hostel opened full-time and there was some additional buildings, I’ve been told by women who were there at the time that it was perhaps 25. Most women were there at least 16 months before going out into the work force, either from the hostel or, in my case, from home, returning to Duncroft at varying intervals until the end of August 1965. There have been women (Bebe Roberts for example) who claim to have been there for seven years, which wouldn’t have happened. The court only had a three-year jurisdiction. I would imagine from 1949 onwards to closing, probably three hundred or so?
@ I’ve been told by women who were there at the time that it was perhaps 25 @
Something that seems to have slipped by (but I may have just missed the comment) is that back in 2007, the police may have interviewed the whole year-group from Duncroft:
Three ex-residents at the home claimed to have been abused by Savile in the 1970s, but prosecutors found there was insufficient evidence to take action…………… A spokeswoman for Surrey Police said officers had spoken to 22 former residents of the girls’ school in 2007, and the children’s charity Barnado’s, which was running the home at the time of the allegations. She said: “Barnardo’s informed us they had no record of any allegations of sexual abuse reported to staff during this period. “A decision was made not to interview former staff unless there was evidence to suggest they witnessed abuse or were made aware of abuse at the time. “None of the former residents spoken to during the course of the investigation indicated staff witnessed abuse, and stated they had not reported abuse to any staff at the time,” she added.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20147834
So if there were 25 there, three of them made the same claims as have just been repeated, but the other 22 said they knew nothing of any abuse. Presumably the police accessed the Barnardo’s records at the time to trace the women. I’m not sure if Miss Jones is aware of this as nobody consulted her in 2007. Increasingly it seems to me she has nothing to reproach herself about and this whole thing is one big fantasy.
Good point, and this kind of links up with the Bryn Estyn case in which several people made allegations of criminal behavior on the part of staff who had already left or not yet arrived at the school at the time at which the plaintiffs were at the school, sometimes to a ludicrously comical extent. This link to a blog is very interesting as the blogger is a well-know civil service whistle blower and blogger.
http://stevemoxon.blogspot.com/2012/11/not-first-time-bbc-newsnight-completely.html
The police spokeswoman apparently did not say that the women interviewed (or those making the claims) had all been there at the same time, so it may not represent a single year-group, just women who had been there during some period in the 70s.
The Daily Telegraph article referenced in the BBC news article has an interesting piece of information (that Savile was interviewed under caution) that I don’t remember seeing mentioned before: “A spokesman for Surrey Police said [...]: “Jimmy Savile was interviewed under caution in relation to these matters in 2009 and the case was referred to the Crown Prosecution Service who advised there was insufficient evidence to charge.”"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/9643084/Savile-Police-failed-to-interview-headmistress-of-abuse-school.html
I think there was insufficient evidence primarily because the original complainants then refused to testify.
“In a statement, the CPS said all four allegations were passed on by Surrey Police in 2009, but that it decided not to pursue convictions because the alleged victims were not willing to testify in court.”
http://www.itv.com/news/2012-10-22/bbc-in-worst-crisis-in-50-years-over-jimmy-savile-scandal/
But more than willing to testify on Newsnight and Exposed, after Savile bought the farm. Nothing suspicious about that, of course.
@mewsical: I tried to put this as a reply to you in Part Five, but the blog-page doesn’t seem to want to accept any more comments, so I’ll leave it here instead. Moor.
@ staff were delegated to chaperone the girls. I would imagine that one at least was Janet Theobald, who got on very well with the girls, being only about ten years older than they were. @
That rang a bell. In Karin’s book account she mentions being supervised by “Theo” to clean and polish Jimmy’s “low-to-the-ground-sportscar “, and in the section about meeting Savile in his dressing room before the show, she writes: “JS laughed and joked with Miss Jones, Theo and every girl close enough to speak to” In this account Karin confidently asserts that there were eight girls and that all the others of the school were ‘home for the weekend’.
I came across this reference to another old Duncroftian who was also at that now-infamous Clunk Click recording day:
“Jeni Hooker, 54, attended the institution between 1972 and 1975 and was one of a number of pupils to appear on the Clunk Click television show with Savile and convicted child sex offender Gary Glitter. Ms Hooker, who now lives in Barnstaple, Devon, said: “I was on the Clunk Click show with Gary Glitter on March 16, 1974 and, of course, Jimmy Savile. “Generally there were about five or six of us from Duncroft who went along each time to the show and we all went up several times.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2122883_jimmy_savile_at_school_as_freely_as_he_wanted
“I just thank God that I wasn’t pretty enough [to be abused]. I am so grateful for that.
“I would like to know how Jimmy Savile was able to get away with it for so long. I can remember him taking the girls out [from Duncroft] in his car. He was allowed to drop in as freely as he wanted.”
Clearly Jeni was not touched herself, but what is perhaps more surprising (if the stories were true) is that she seems to have remained unaware at the time that anyone else was being touched, which seems unlikely from what Anna Raccon has said about such a tight-knot social circle as Duncroft was, regardless of the era a person was there.
Margaret Jones has noted that there were girls there who were ‘mentally disturbed.’ She declines to name names, of course, but I think we can figure that out ourselves!
I seem to recall that Bebe Roberts claimed she stayed on as an employee
Not true. I don’t think she claimed that, and she would not have been allowed to do so. She went to the hostel, out to work, and then home. She got pregnant with her first daughter while she was still at the hostel. Bottom line, Bebe lied. She never saw Savile at Duncroft. He signed the visitors’ book in 1974.
Sorry, you’re correct. She didn’t make that claim, and it was a case of me mis-reading something on a facebook page I’d come across about Duncroft teachers. I’d somehow mistaken her for a teacher rather than a pupil.
What facebook page? Might be interesting
Sorry, just found it again and its a friends Reunited page. This is the address: http://www.friendsreunited.com.au/Discussion/844241?take=10&page=2 or just google, ‘Teacher memory Duncroft’
She’s not a very good agent if the North Wales Police could walk in and take all her files. I like the idea she was in Iraq or wherever and working on the Duncroft & North Wales case file, truly a wonder woman.
She’s bound to know Daniel Craig.
@ Saul – well, you can start here http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/celebrity/brian_jones/index.html – but the contractor did it, no doubt. Just lost his temper with Brian and drowned him while they were swimming in the pool that night.
I prefer to start somewhere with proven facts. Do you have a link for one of those?
Oh, for crying out loud, don’t try to link A A Milne with the death of Brian Jones if you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously. FFS.
Guess you can’t take a joke. Anna made a crack about Pooh and I took it from there. This is how conspiracy theories get started, imo. The only link between Brian and Pooh is that Brian bought Cotchford Farm, which was the former residence of A.A. Milne (and Christopher Robin, too). The gardens had a few statues of the Pooh characters. Brian died at Cotchford, having conveniently drowned – interesting as he was known to be a strong swimmer even if impaired.
@ Saul – don’t hold your breath on ‘proven facts.’ You can read a book called Death of a Rolling Stone, which might lead you to the same conclusions, but the police continue to dither about on reopening their investigation, though enough people have called for it.
I don’t remember the sixties, even though I was there, so maybe I was at Duncroft?
I remember the 60s but not Duncroft. Perhaps I’ve blotted it all out !. Can I still claim ?
I knew you would have something to say about this Anna, I posted about this claim last night and went to bed chortling. But I didn’t make the link with the forged ‘letter from the police’. Very interesting.
It is Holy Writ that women do not lie about sexual assault, rape, or being ‘looked at funny’. Even suggesting the possibility in a Family Court can lose a chap his house and kiddies.
I don’t actually think the PM will take the slightest bit of notice – they have not done so for the last 20 years!
We don’t count.
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Once again I am asking for this e mail to go viral. Have you noticed that the outcry concerning the Jimmy Savile affair has already died down? The main stream media have done nothing to find out just how bad this evil permeates our society, does anyone REALLY believe that man could have gotten away with the things he did if high ranking officials had not assisted him?
The FBI sent our police force a very big list of paedophiles some time ago. The police started an investigation, they named it operation ORE and compiled a dossier on the people on that list. It contained a lot of VERY HIGH RANKING PEOPLE.
Some of the police on that investigation have been in touch with us and although they would not give us names, because they can’t prove it NOW, they have said that MP’S, EX MP’S, MEP’S, EX PRIME MINISTERS, SERVING AND RETIRED SENIOR POLICE, SENIOR MILITARY PERSONEL, JUDGES, BARRISTERS, SOCIAL WORKERS, CHARITY WORKERS, CHILDREN ‘S CARE HOMES PERSONEL and many other high ranking people were on that list.
The result of operation ORE was given to the CPS and then TONY BLAIR SEALED THE CONTENTS FOR 100 YEARS.
WHY???????????
I think the answer to that is obvious, don’t you???? It seems the rich and powerful can do anything they like, even to our children, because they are protected.
So I am asking for everyone who reads this to write to 10. Downing st. London and post it on the first of December. All you need to say is Mr. Cameron please order the dossier named OPERATION ORE to be re-opened and the contents made public and acted upon.
If he received millions of letters on the same day he would realise that the British public are disgusted with these high ranking paedophile rings and want the people arrested, charged and imprisoned. How would you feel if your child was snatched, abused, (some as young as 4 to 6 months old) and then either left to live with that abuse or in some cases murdered?
Please help us stop these evil people, write to Cameron and post it on the first of December.
Thank you.
REMEMBER A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE ARE MAKING LAWS THAT YOU AND I HAVE TO OBEY.
the investigative journalist Duncan Campbell did a thorough investigation of Ore and discovered serious flaws in the entire case including incidents of massive credit card fraud via the US operators of the porn websites in question that included many of those charged supposedly subscribing to the same website 6 times in one day.
The FBI’s sticky fingers were all over the dodgy claims and none of those on the US list were charged apart from the 2 website owners.
The FBI sent a list of UK IP addresses and credit cards that were used on the Landslide web portal and payments engine. The majority of the sites accessed through the Landslide portal were adult pornography, although there were numerous child pornography sites – which is what .
Many people who paid for access to adult porn were also signed up for, without their knowledge, kiddie porn sites. Many people who simply had their credit cards ripped off were signed up to kiddie porn or adult porn sites, without their knowledge.
The US detective and the Postal Services Inspector lied in written evidence that the Landslide landing page had a “click here to access child pornography” button. The UK police did not adequately consider, for some significant time, the card fraud possibility. Many people were investigated. Some committed suicide. Some accepted a caution based on the landing page argument. In a number of cases, child porn was found on peoples’ computers and they were prosecuted.
It would not surprise me that some important people (or people with privileged access to vulnerable children) are on the list of card holders or even, that they signed up to adult porn sites. It wouldn’t even surprise me if some important people (or people with privileged etc, etc) were pedophiles – active or otherwise. But you are barking.
Just as a note – I have been known to go drinking with a number of computer forensics officers, of varying ranks. And their non-technical bosses. And seem to get told a lot of things. It is likely that if ORE had been shut down because of political pressure rather than, as Observor says, post Duncan Campbell and Jim Bates’ excellent work (and despite the latter’s subsequent difficulties), there was no realistic chance of obtaining a conviction _unless_ there were cp images found on the suspects’ machines, I sure in-large-amounts-of-beer-veritas would apply and I would know something about it. Needless to say …
Which is what … the Reedys were prosecuted for in the USA. Apols.
I blame David Icke.
He’s a joke.
I blame The McCanns. They done everything since The Ark.
I knew something smelled about this story – it’s the Pooh . . .
This is becoming a truly epic saga, Madame. I love that website to which you refer; it is, my any measure, an absolute stonker, with no trace of any irony anywhere. A collector’s piece, indeed…
Andrea is clearly the Chuck Norris de notre jour:
“They are making a sequel to ’300′ starring Andrea. It’s called ’1…’ “
If, as Andrea Davison asserts, all her paperwork was taken when the Police raided her home, how did she manage to leave the UK and get into Argentina without a Passport?
Also, where did she get the cash for the fare and how does she exist without cash (she cannot work in Argentina without a work permit, for which you need a valid Passport)?
Finally, the UK has an extradition treaty with Argentina, why has it not been used to get her back?
I think we should be told!
@ just me and my cat – thanks for the links, I have signed up for both!
Just a note to say that I’m reading this blog and following the saga. I don’t have a comment to make because it’s all so, so … I don’t think I have a word for it.
Just wanted to advise that whoever the tinfoil hat person who is maintaining the “Justice Denied” blog (see first link in Anna’s post) has now become so terrified of the truth that he/she has begun deleting my posts and is moderating me! A post from Ellen was also deleted. Methinks they can’t handle the truth!
I spent some brief quality time with Andrea in an NHS nuthouse in 2010 – hadn’t seen her for over twenty years before then. She is a major league bullshitter, albeit a bullshitter who really has met some extraordinary people over the years. Sort of a North Wales version of Michael E Murrin of Oyston and more recently early Savile tinfoil intervention fame. There’s a website somewhere I found over the last few weeks of internet craziness where she was protesting that she wasn’t really responsible for that ’94 helicopter crash at the Mull of Kintyre. You have to laugh really.
Thanks for the post LTW. So, how did you encounter her in the 90s?
she reminds me of the late Vikki de Lambrey who I knew and also made sensational claims by meeting some big names but then pick pocketed an MI6 heavy and it all came crashing down.
Please could I ask Anna or her readers whether they know or have contacts who might know, the provenance of the alleged tape recording of Jimmy Savile that featured in MW-Tosser’s first program? Its been bugging me terribly that nobody appears to have questioned where it came from – who was he talking to? What editing was done? I know it sounded disjointed to me. He said ‘they did nothing wrong’ and it was edited to appear he was referring to GG . I don’t think he’d have said ‘they’ if referring to GG (him, not they).
It seems mighty peculiar that its never been revealed whose interview this was, why it was never aired – it would have been quite a scoop at the time if genuine.
I’d like this tape to be found to be not authentic, given that most people now appreciate that the rest of the program was full of fakes and frauds. Then perhaps Tosser will receive his due vilification in due course for starting up this whole mess which has made even the most responsible and sensible politicians and others feel they have to join in rather than be ostracized and labelled as a paedo supporter.
@mina field
These tapes?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/nov/09/jimmy-savile-recordings-met-police
They seem to be with the police now.
Here’s one of it’s first press incarnation pages.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9589207/Jimmy-Savile-abuse-audio-recording-emerges.html
No, not those. The one played on MW-T’s original Exposure program, which MW-T claimed was an interview Savile gave in 2009 (I think that was the year). Its never been explained what interview this was, and with whom, and how MW-T acquired it. Now, I know there are Savile impersonators but don’t know if they do the full voice………..
Patience chidlren – I’m writing as fast as I can…….!
The “Exposure” Pt2 programme was shown last night and Williams-Thomas let slip that he was involved with the old 2007 Duncroft investigation. Other than that, there seemed little of interest, other than grinding on about Savile. Savile’s long-term PA was interviewed and said she had never seen anything to make her “suspect”. Her reward for the interview was being dismissed on the premise that “he was good at hiding wasn’t he”.
The PA also described being fired by him in a particularly nasty way, so she isn’t a neutral observer. If she did ever see anything, she has an incentive to say she didn’t because if she said she had, the next questions would be why didn’t she warn people before, and why did she go on working for him. She also has an incentive to say (as she did) that he was a nasty, ruthless, manipulative person because of the way he treated her in the end.
Sir Roger Jones, the guy who kept Savile away from Children in Need, was repeatedly asked why he didn’t tell anyone else at the BBC, but what was he supposed to tell them? He felt that the body language of his staff when Savile was mentioned showed that JS made them uncomfortable, so he decided Savile should not be involved in future. Fair enough – good managers don’t want to cause discomfort to their staff. However, it seemed in the interview that he didn’t actually ask anyone why they felt like that. Even if he suspected that Savile had been groping some of the staff (presumably all adults, not underage girls), why would that make him suspect anything like the allegations being made against Savile now? If he had gone to other people of influence in the BBC and said that Savile should no longer be allowed to participate in any programmes because he had a feeling JS made some staff uncomfortable, I doubt anyone would have listened to him, and if what he said had got back to Savile, he might even have been sued.
@ If she did ever see anything, she has an incentive to say she didn’t because if she said she had, the next questions would be why didn’t she warn people before, and why did she go on working for him. ‘
Isn’t that what pretty much what Roger Jones has done? You managed to justify him without any problem.
“@ If she did ever see anything, she has an incentive to say she didn’t because if she said she had, the next questions would be why didn’t she warn people before, and why did she go on working for him. ‘
“Isn’t that what pretty much what Roger Jones has done? You managed to justify him without any problem.”
No, because he didn’t personally see Savile doing anything, just sensed that his staff weren’t comfortable wih Savile. Probably he should have asked them why, but there is no reason to believe it would have involved suspicion of inappropriate sexual activity with underage girls. If any of his staff did have reason to suspect that, they should have told him or someone else, not just stayed quiet but looked uncomfortable.
# “Isn’t that what pretty much what Roger Jones has done? You managed to justify him without any problem.” #
@ No, because he didn’t personally see Savile doing anything, just sensed that his staff weren’t comfortable wih Savile. Probably he should have asked them why, but there is no reason to believe it would have involved suspicion of inappropriate sexual activity with underage girls. If any of his staff did have reason to suspect that, they should have told him or someone else, not just stayed quiet but looked uncomfortable. @
So Roger Jones is “innocent” but now you imply that all his staff did know – hence their “body language”. You see how this sort of thing mushrooms? You have just ‘condemned’ all those staff. Isn’t it much simpler to see that Roger Jones is a self-important windbag who sought to put distance between himself (personally) and the cesspit – without a thought for his “staff”, because he was doing exactly what you just did and basically saying that all those staff were covering up paedophilia.
You suggest Cope DID know but could hardly admit it. So now you condemn her for covering up for a child abuser as well. On what basis do you condemn her? Because she tells the truth? This really is Catch 22 stuff because the only way she “wins” is to say Jimmy was guilty, which makes her guilty for 30 years as well.
She said she found him manipulative, but that was only after he sacked her.
Also, doesn’t this seem odd to you? Here is a woman who would know where all the bodies are buried and Savile pisses her off big time? His behaviour towards her only convinces me even more that he had nothing to hide.
You are reading so much into what I wrote which just isn’t there …
“So Roger Jones is “innocent” but now you imply that all his staff did know – hence their “body language”. You see how this sort of thing mushrooms? You have just ‘condemned’ all those staff.”
No, I have not. Any “condemnation” is in your own mind. I’m not implying anything about his staff, nor do I think he was doing so. My guess is that they were uncomfortable because he was overly tactile for some (adult) women’s comfort. There are many reports (including things he said himself, and incidents caught on camera) confirming that he was – not a criminal offence, but enough to cause the discomfort Jones says he observed.
“he was doing exactly what you just did and basically saying that all those staff were covering up paedophilia. ”
Same objection. You are assuming that saying he thought he saw discomfort is the same as saying they knew about paedophilia. That’s a huge jump on very little evidence. You may have interpreted what he said that way, but I didn’t.
“You suggest Cope DID know but could hardly admit it. So now you condemn her for covering up for a child abuser as well. On what basis do you condemn her? Because she tells the truth? This really is Catch 22 stuff because the only way she “wins” is to say Jimmy was guilty, which makes her guilty for 30 years as well.”
Again, no. I did not suggest that she knew. I’m not even suggesting there was anything she could have known, since I still have an open mind about that. What I suggested was that she isn’t a neutral witness. I stick to that. Someone who worked with him for .. I think it was 28 years .. and who was then fired by him is not a neutral source of information. I am saying that she MAY be biased one way or the other. I’m not saying that she is, or that anything she said is untrue, just that we should not assume anything one way or the other.
“Here is a woman who would know where all the bodies are buried and Savile pisses her off big time?”
You are probably right that the way he fired her suggests he was not afraid of anything she could tell about him, but how do you know she would know where amy bodies were buried? I don’t know whether she was supposed ot have been present in any of the places where abuse is alleged to have happened. I don’t remember any of the complainants saying she was there at the time. Again, I’m not saying there WAS any abuse, just that her saying she didn’t see any does not add much to the ‘evidence’ in previous reports.
@ justmeandmycat … Thanks for the discussion and it’s not my intention to put meanings where you meant none. A couple of linky things anyhow, just for context and future reference perhaps.
I must confess to finding one of Roger Jones’ comments in particular quite inexplicable:
“I mean if we had given money to a paedophile group, the sky would have fallen in on the BBC. So we were very very careful, we were on red alert.” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20120302
Do you have to be an “expert” to know not to donate Childline money to “paedophile groups” ….
As to Ms Cope, what a difference a year makes:
When Janet Cope asked Jimmy Savile to give her away at her wedding, it was a gesture that symbolised the great esteem in which she held him. She had no father to fulfil the role and Jimmy was not merely her employer but the man her whole life had come to revolve around.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2058145/Jimmy-Savile-death-I-asked-Jimmy-away-wedding.html#ixzz2CyRlcrJD
Thank you! The BBC Wales link gives a very different impression than what Jones said in the programme that aired last night.
What was his role in the 2007 investigation?
@ What was his role in the 2007 investigation? @
I just watched the show again and I think this may be a misinterpretation. He makes a point of saying that “for the record I was an officer at Surry Police for 12 years”, but according to this (from his website) he was not around by 2007.
http://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/?q=system/files/Mark%20%20Williams-Thomas%20-%20Surrey%20Magazine.pdf
Did he? What did he say exactly about his role?
Mark consulted on the first Newsnight show, as by that time he had become somewhat of an authority on pedophiles. This is where he likely first encountered Meirion Jones. Mark was also involved with the Jonathan King situation – he notes that Savile had Jonathan’s information in his address book, while interviewing Janet Cope – and also with the Maddie McCann disappearance in Portugal.
I don’t know if he was simply a uniformed officer with the Surrey Police, or a detective by the time he left.
This biograph seems to date from approximately 2007
http://www.menspeakers.co.uk/speakerdetail.asp?speakerid=212
“Prior to setting up WT Associates in 2005, Mark was a police Detective specialising in major crime. He worked on or was in charge of some of the largest paedophile and murder investigations in the country, as well as being was one of only 10 specialist Family Liaison officers during his time in the police. Mark is also completing a Masters in Criminology at the University of Central England.” Iimagine he’s over-egging his career somewhat in that….
This is from early 2011
http://www.channel4.com/news/child-worker-checks-to-be-relaxed
and shows him certainly convinced that government policy is “pandering to certain individuals.”. Presumably he is very much of the “Paedophile Conspiracy” persuasion and so Savile is really just a means to try and make us all as paranoid as he seems to have become.
One thing I did notice on reflection was that his “Exposure Pt2″ programme seemed very much a one-man show. I even wonder if Ms Cope was being mis-represented. She was put across as a very hostile witness, but I noticed that she was still referring to Savile as “Jim” even late on in the presentation. I think Miss Jones was very wise to keep well away from this guy. I did notice he even tried to imply something by editing his mobile phone conversation snippets to leave her sounding as if she was being evasive about the “rides in the car”. The other hilarious thing about that section was his filmed imagery of himself with a mobile on speaker-phone, in the middle of a country lane…. what was all that about? Drama-documentary cliches I suppose.
I believe he was a uniformed police constable until the last year or so of his police career, when he was a detective constable. So, a lowly fledgling detective and nowhere near being ‘in charge’ of anything but the most trivial of occurrences. Its a funny time in a detective’s career to leave policing.
It seems to me that the BBC is an ‘Unsafe Workplace’. Not only are visitors abused, but the staff seem to have been bringing ‘actions’ against the BBC, at huge expense to the viewing public (who don’t get to view the Tribunal going-on)
“Within the last 10 years, the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) has spent at least £18,580,040 in legal costs – absorbing the revenue extracted from 129,553 licence fee payers – on claims made against the state broadcaster. This figure does not include money spent using in-house lawyers.
A Freedom of Information (FoI) request by The Commentator has revealed several figures regarding BBC payments in out-of-court settlements, employment tribunal claims, litigation claims, and the number of times the corporation has been sued.
Between April 1st 2005 and November 2nd 2012, the BBC spent £2,893,492 in legal costs as part of employment tribunal claims brought against the corporation.
Over five years, 136 claimants lodged 146 industrial tribunal and employment tribunal claims against the BBC. Since January 2008 and up to the end of October 2012, the BBC has been sued 60 times, according to the BBC’s litigation database figures.
…… Lawyers at the BBC have said that the BBC could also face a multi-million pound compensation claim from victims of alleged sexual abuse by the former Top of the Pops presenter.
Just last week, the BBC agreed to pay Lord McAlpine £185,000 in damages”
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/2102/spiralling_bbc_legal_fees_leave_licence_fee_payers_out_of_pocket
A nice little earner, this litigation bizzo.
I now feel quite cheated that on my few visits to TV Centre – as both an audience member, and the guest of a BBC employee – I never once got the chance to wander off and witness any scenes of depravity at all. Unless recoridngs of Two Pints of Lager count.
Hugely entertaining as ever…….
@ Mina and Moor re. MWT’s police career – the brother of one of the former staff members (also still alive) was suspicious of MWT’s credentials also. The brother is a retired detective from the Met. Yes, true enough that having taken a promotion to a detective constable and then leaving the police is a bit odd. Parenthetically, now and then we’d have parties at Duncroft – usually at Halloween – and police cadets would be invited as guests.
Yeah, I used to yowl – mostly at the moon, but the tablets stopped all that……..!!!
Excuse the boringly factual reply, but your cats are hyperthyroid (overactive), like our cat, whereas Andrea seems to claim she is hypothyroid (underactive) thyroid like me. As Anna said, it is very common in women of our age. If you want advice on dealing with hyperthyroid cats, I strongly recommend the feline thyroid support groups on Yahoo. If you want advice on dealing with hypothyroid women, I don’t have any.
Damn you Anna; now I’ve got bark at the moon by Ozzy running through my head
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/THE+REAL+JIMMY+SAVILE%3B+BY+THE+WOMAN+WHO+KNEW+HIM+BEST.-a0271687611
In this link Ms Cope, speaking shortly after the death, states that they parted company in 1999 when he had to cut the running costs of his charity work. Makes sense, as he quietened down a lot in his last decade. And if they had fallen out she wouldn’t have all his paperwork in her garage.
Absolutely concur regarding your observation that she wouldn’t have maintained the archive if there was real falling out. He simply made an executive decision. Ms. Cope never explained what his thinking was for letting her go, and I’ll bet dollars to donuts that she was well taken care of. She remains loyal and says she saw nothing. Mebbe, mebbe not.
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