The telephone disturbed the afternoon peace a few minutes ago. The line echoed in the manner of a Skype call; I had answered in French naturally, and the caller sounded hesitant.
‘Ms Raccoon’ said he – well, no actually, but you get the idea!
‘Yes’.
‘I am with HSBC security division and I need to ask you a few questions.’
He had an accent honed in foreign lands that coupled with the echoing line put me on my guard.
‘I need to ask you to confirm some security questions.’
You know the sort of thing, date of birth, mother’s maiden name, which paw your dog has a bunion on….
‘Why?’ said I.
‘There have been some changes to your account, and I need to confirm that you are Ms Raccoon’.
‘How exactly am I supposed to confirm who you are, never mind who I am? I have no intention of giving you my security details over the phone.’
‘If you could just answer these questions, I could explain, but first I need to take you through these questions.’
‘Fine’, I said, ‘e-mail me in the normal way and give me a number that I can confirm and I will call you.’
Sure enough, two minutes later an e-mail arrived. Correctly addressed to my true e-mail. Given that my details have recently been plastered all over the Internet, I still wasn’t satisfied. I studied the e-mail carefully. An unusual header.
Za**arizu**u**ipli@hsbc.com.my – (note the unusual domain ending) on behalf of ********validation@hsbc.com .
Not even from hsbc.com directly. It asked me not to respond to the e-mail but to call ‘this’ number, quoting a three letter code.
Nice try I thought, but not a chance flower!
I immediately telephoned my branch to report this. Well, not exactly immediately – I telephoned the branch, waited the usual ten minutes as the voicemail went through all the options, entered my ten digit secure number, pressed the hash key the requisite number of times, went through the voicemail options yet again, entered yet another security number, and finally I had ‘telephoned my branch’ – God help you if you are dyslexic or elderly or in a rush to report something!
Finally they answered, ‘Good afternoon Ms Raccoon’ said the bright young thing, and ‘how may I help you?’ The wonders of modern technology!
‘Could you confirm to me that you have an employee Za**arizu**u**ipli? I carefully spelt the name out, unable to pronounce it with any confidence.
‘Certainly’ she said, ‘I’ll check our records.’
‘No, we have no one of that name listed’.
I explained to her the mysterious call I had just received.
‘Oh you did the right thing! And you say they wanted you to give out the answers to your security questions over the phone, you should never do that.’
‘Whoever it is has my e-mail address too.’ I read her over the e-mail that I was ‘not’ to respond to, just phone ‘this’ number.
You’re waiting for me to tell you that I caught a Nigerian scammer in the act, aren’t you? Except that I didn’t.
Two minutes later she had finished checking my account and announced that someone from validation had indeed phoned me at exactly 3.25 – it was there on my records – but hadn’t been able to get through. Could she put me through to them?
‘Yes, OK?’ said I, looking forward to giving them an absolute roasting. I was thwarted, whoever it was had left the office and she couldn’t get a reply…….
I am gobsmacked, speechless.
It seems that this was a genuine call from the security division of an internet bank who seriously expect to phone people out of the blue and ask them the answers to their security questions over the phone? Then send them an e-mail that they cannot respond to from a different e-mail address to the normal one? From an employee who isn’t listed in their internal directory? Who promptly leaves his office?
Utter madness. Insanity. Lunacy.
I shall be forwarding a copy of this article to my bank manager – I would phone her, but since she is in a different country to me and I have to pay for the bally time I spend going through the voicemail option and laboriously tapping in my security numbers, I can’t be bothered. She can forward it to the security division by way of explanation as to why they can’t get any co-operation from Ms Raccoon.
Ms Raccoon lives in the Monbazillac area of South West France, renowned for its fine wines and gourmet food, so she frequently finds better things to do than sit in front of a computer all morning. She is liable to take off traveling at a moment's notice. Consequently this blog only gets updated these days when it is raining - and it doesn't rain very often round here...
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I hate this sort of thing too, and I’ve found this site to be excellent: http://whocallsme.com
Type in the number they called from and there’s usually plenty of feedback from other people on its validity (or otherwise!).
This is sadly terribly common. I always refuse to answer the security questions – on the grounds that they called me and they should prove who they are first. I’ve never yet had a single one of them understand why it might be an issue.
” I always refuse to answer the security questions – on the grounds that they called me and they should prove who they are first. “
Me too! They get very affronted…
They really do, I sometimes suggest they tell me what the last balance was on my bill or statement – which they always decline to do on confidentiality grounds
I try this line of argument as well and generally the ‘bank’ rep gets confused and angry at my doubting them and refusing to prove who I am. Maybe banks should allow us to have a ‘call me password’ for banks to authenticate themselves with us with – I would love to ask AmEx for the third and last letter of my password…
It’s funny you should mention this: I’m an HSBC customer as well, and I’ve had similar phone calls on my mobile from an 0800 number on more than one occasion in the last few months – except in this case, it’s been from an Englishwoman from a UK call centre. I’ve also checked the http://whocallsme.com website to verify the origin of the phone number, and it’s checked out as HSBC each time.
On each occasion I’ve reminded the caller that we – the public – are constantly exhorted to refuse to divulge any personal information. To be fair, they haven’t asked me for anything that would be useful to a phisher, but on principle I won’t give them what they want.
But then, what can we expect from a bank with such a sleazy pedigree as having been the recipient for opium trade drug money..?
Some months ago, I had a very similar experience with HSBC. I had arranged to transfer some money from one account to another and thought the matter done. Some time (several days) later, I received a call just such as yours. Not being as quick as you, I simply said that I would not impart any security information unless I could confirm the legitimacy of the call. The nice lady on the other end said she quite understood and rung off. I thought I had foiled a scammer. Some time after that I found that the bank had not transferred the money, that the call was to sort things out, and that because they had not pursued the call, they had not done the transfer, to my considerable inconvenience and penalty. It is bizarre that HSBC are still continuing with a process that they must know is ridiculous.
Barclays Bank also do this.
Exactly as stevegee experienced, when I wished to transfer some money to my account in my French bank. When I queried the call I was politly told that if I did not answer the questions that the money would not be transferred.
HSBNC are my crooks — sorry! — bankers, too.
So they had your e-mail address and your phone number? So exactly WHO did they think was going to answer the phone? Or maybe they believed you were lying trussed up in the cellar, while a criminal master-mind (mistress-mind?) waited patiently for HSBC to check things out? A master-mind who would already have waterboarded all the security information out of you.
I’m having a hard time seeing what the point of all this was.
PS: Please reply, stating which paw the aforesaid dog has a bunion on.
“Or maybe they believed you were lying trussed up in the cellar, while a criminal master-mind (mistress-mind?) waited patiently for HSBC to check things out? “
Tried that. They always seem to have suffocated by the time the call comes in, though…
Evidently the Hong Kong Bank has gained from migration to London — gained, that is, a large portion of our wonderful, new found national incompetence. No doubt it will be organizing a party down at Watney’s soon.
ΠΞ
As with John M above, I have received calls from Barclays asking me to confirm who I was before they would even let me know the reason for the call. The caller was most certainly not of Anglo-Saxon ancestry. I politely refused on the grounds that I never discuss anything to do with my banking affairs other than with an employee of my local branch, and I hung up.
A couple of minutes later I was called again, this time by a male who seemed to have the same origins as my earlier caller. He referred to that earlier call and my refusal to give any information. He told me that I had to give him the answers to my security questions. I refused more bluntly this time and again terminated the call. Both calls were from a “Withheld” number.
I called into my local branch and informed them of these calls and it was confirmed that both calls were legitimate.
I give up.
I sold my house in Bushey to Nigerians six years ago. Two years after I’d left Barclaycard decide to send a new card to my old address despite me cancelling the account. Well you can guess the rest.
£10k in 21 days. They just couldn’t leave it alone, could they ! Could not resist something like that landing on their mat.
This summer I have debt collectors hunting me down for a spending splurge that has nothing to do with me. I’ve fought them off with the assistance of the Financial Services Ombudsman.
Could be worse. Try dealing with Santander.
Yes, since Santander took over A & L there is trouble. Neither the staff nor the customers are made aware of detailed changes taking place. I get contradictory advice from Bootle between tele service employees, and a local branch. It’s a mess. In a face to face interview with a ‘financial advisor’ at my branch, the young lady was flummoxed when I asked how she could convince me to remain a customer – “We have the best rates” was the best she could do.
Thanks for the heads up on Barclays and HSBC, that leaves Lloyds TSB, as most of the remainder are being gobbled up by Santander!
I always refuse to discuss and hang up immediately whenever I get phoned by a company asking anything financial or house/family related – currently multiple times per week by people telling me I can ditch my debts or may be eligible for an insulation grant and even an occassional ‘has your PC gone wrong’ scammer.
I now wonder how many of the calls might have been genuine!
One of the joys of living in France is the sheer simplicity of dealing with cold callers – of which we get plenty……
‘Bonjour Madame Raccoon, rabbit, rabbit rabbit, rabbit….’
Just let them run on for a minute or two, then a simple ‘Do you speak English?’ is all it takes to stop them in their tracks and they are gone in a split second.
I wish I had known that in England – I would have mastered ‘Do you speak Serbio-Croatian’ in the appropriate language long ago…….
Incidentally – our french house phone is supplied by sfr on their broadband dea and works as voice over IP, calls to the Uk are free.
Yes, I must own up – I also get free calls to the UK – and the US, which is just as well given the number of times I have had to phone the ever helpful technical support line at our host server the past week or so……
That doesn’t get away from the legnth of time it takes to get through the voicemail options. In order to speak to my manager I not only have to go through the options to get to the call centre, I then have to run the gauntlet of a Doctor’s receptionist style interrogation to find out why I want to speak to the manager and then hang on for ten mintues whilst they see whether she is willing to speak to me – ‘personal relationship manager’ – ‘Premier Service’ – sheesh!
yes well – I have no problems of that nature with Lloyds (although they insist on sending “are you ok and do you want more “help”?” letters -please just pop into the branch – which is tricky as I live in Houston, Tx as I keep telling them………..)
Anyway…… take a gander at this – makes you want to weep/cry/take to the barricades…..
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/232611?RS_show_page=0
Have to admit hardly ever get cold callers at the door.
We’re even off the JW map.
We’ve even put the ringer off sometimes and let everything go to answerphone, we were getting so many of these. admittedly, friends or family could call with important news but they should leave a message still, even if it’s to call them back. I take the view that anyone who won’t leave a message is trying to trap us into conversation for their own ends.
By the way, WELCOME BACK ANNA RACCOON! is it really you?
Hope you’re feeling better. Always put your health first but I can’t deny I’m very glad to see you surface again. You’ve helped me and my family more than you know, just your postings have made a big difference and given us useful knowledge.
Yup. Been there, done that. Weird, all very weird. It is why I refer to HSBC as Shanghai Lil’s, except that at the original Lil’s the service was better and more reliable.
Most reassuring to know I’m not some completely paranoid loon for refusing to blithely discuss my account details with someone from the Indian sub-continent. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had circular conversations about why I must and why I won’t.
A more recent development (anyone else had this?) – phone calls from the same region saying the government wants to pay off my unsecured debt for me and how much such debt did I have? Giving the answer ‘zero’ somewhat takes the wind out their sails..
I had a cold caller the other day. Immediately I said I wasn’t interested yet she was determined to finish her speech and was still talking when I politely said goodbye and cut off. Minutes later the phone rang again so I left it to the answerphone. The message left was a tersely whispered ‘bitch’. I’m not deleting it. Have some idea about playing it back to the next cold caller.
Useful to note that email is unauthenticated, meaning I can send you an email with the from address set to enquiries@hsbc.com just by changing the properties in my mail client.
Quite Michael, quite so……
Sounds like one of the relatively new Malaysian-based frauds. Good work in not falling for it.
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